iamore's Blogs

For those of faith

iamore Blog Last Activity 7 years ago 499 views 13 comments

I am not a religious man, but I have great interest in understanding different worldviews.  I am not a troll, and genuinely want to hear your answers.  I was recently exposed to yet another story of abuse perpetrated by religious authority figures, those in a position of ultimate trust.  Again, as is so often the case, this event was never confronted, and the young man has lived with this terrible secret causing great emotional and psychological damage.  I struggle to understand...  As a person of faith, how does this make you feel?  How does the knowledge of the Pope's involvement in protecting those responsible affect you?  How do you reconcile these stories within your faith?  I truly mean no offense, and sincerely hope you ask yourself these questions honestly.  My heart goes out to the countless victims.

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youngagain21
7 years ago

It has become apparent that some posters to this blog prefer to spew hate filled, insulting rhetoric instead of engaging in intelligent conversation. What a shame. In doing this they proliferate the very thing they accuse religion of and prove instead they, themselves, have no understanding of knowledge, religion or history. I refuse to engage in such childish, hurtful ranting but instead offer fact. While it is recorded that both religious and secular groups have engaged in horrible crimes, (and still do so today) it also shows man's compassion and quest for knowledge and understanding. The Bible says to seek wisdom, the Qu'ran encourages accumulating knowledge. Some of the math and science we know today are because the works of: Johannes Keplar, Blaise Pascal, Sir Issac Newton, Gottfried W. Leibniz and others, all Christian. There is Muhammad Al-Khwarizmi, Muhammad Al-Karaji, Omar Khayyam and more, All Muslim. Were these people not intelligent? I am done with this blog. I'm out.

PHPeter
7 years ago

Throughout history all the various religions have been 'book burners' and have held back human progress ...  ironically their promise of  'everlasting life' has actually resulted in the lives of their sheep being cut much shorter ....  BUT  intelligent humans have let the religious scum have their own way for far too long and it is now time to put a stop to their evil ways .... if the religious thugs who destroyed the library at  Alexandria had been stopped our average life expectancy would probably be at least 2 or 3 hundred years by now and we would probably already have colonised other worlds !

GayBoytubes
7 years ago

Jesus said in the new testament that all old laws are abolished and he created 2 new ones. The only 2 we have to follow which are love your God, and love your neighbor.

youngagain21
7 years ago

As I read the various responses, some good, some useless, some heart felt, I debated within myself if I should respond again and then, how so. What IAMORE intended when he started this blog is heart felt and admirable. These things need to be addressed and people should be willing to discuss it openly. Not doing so keep us closed minded and ignorant - not religion itself. I cannot speak to this cause from a position of higher education but from one of personal knowledge. What I can do is speak from my experience. During my short life I have seen the good and bad of man both within religious context and without. What I see many times is disgusting. Despite being here on GBT, I am a believer, and a veteran who served in Afghanistan. I have seen the arrogance of man's knowledge destroy our planet and the people on it and I have seen religions wage war against even their own people, raining destruction on any who dare oppose it. I have seen Christians and Muslims unite to fight a common enemy. I have witnessed the destruction of a car bomb and seen the smiles of children when they realized they had a place of safety. We have worked together to provide food and clothing for refugee families only to have one of us killed three days later. You know what? She was of Jewish heritage, helping a Christian Chaplain serve Muslim refugees - and paid with her life. So, I ask you, which is bad? Which is worse? I choose to believe in Christ despite dealing with the wretched turmoil within that brings me to GBT. Where, incidentally, I have met one of the most awesome guys ever. In my experience I have see the best that Christianity has to offer and felt the closeness of God - something that I cannot describe. So where does that leave us? The church needs to police itself better and hold people accountable. The church membership needs to hold the church leaders accountable. When people stop complaining and start doing, start working things out despite our differences, treat each other with dignity and respect and love on those who have been affected maybe we will start to see change. I don't know much else - but I do hope that this is received in the spirit of goodwill and love it was intended. I have found some good people here (one in particular as I mentioned!) and I do not mean to offend anyone. Maybe I am just cynical - I'm done. thanks for reading.

7 years ago

BEFORE YOU ALL GO HAYWIRE READ WHAT WHIT I TYPE' THESE GUYS ARE REPORTERS 1.NO ONE BELIEVE THIS MEN  HAVE TO SHOWING NAKED IN COMMAND

7 years ago

man is a sinner. being religious or a leader in a church doesn't make a person infallable. just human. i put my faith in jesus, not religion.

iamore
7 years ago

Yes, I am very familiar with Christopher Hitchens life and works, and have thoroughly devoured many of his extensive library, as well as his colleges Daniel Dennet, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris (collectively "the four horsemen") among others of course.  In another forum I may be leading the argument, dispelling misapprehension and false pretext, but I do not regard this as that forum.  This is a place for people like me, with no other outlet for a sense of belonging, community or shared experience.  Although my profile may say I've been here for close to 5 years, I remained silent for much of that time, as I have through the rest of my solitary life.  In that regard I can relate whole-heartedly to the need for a sense of community; I understand the desire to fit in on a very personal level.  I cherish the friends and mentors in this community and would never wish to be the source of intolerance or offense.  I really struggled with the notion of even writing this blog in the first place, but settled on the disturbing realization that some growing up in faith within this community may have experienced this first hand.  I seek understanding in my own way, and value the testimony of different worldviews as much, if not more, than my own.  I believe it's only by putting aside preconceived notions and honestly trying to see the world through someone else's eyes that we can truly learn about ourselves.


 


As for my beliefs?  I've heard it called the Cosmic Perspective (Lawrence Krauss I think, but I could be mistaken).  To enjoy our brief moment in the sun.  We are barley a blip on the radar, and will have little if any effect on any scale larger than our home.  To me, this underscores the need for tolerance and an honest desire to appreciate cultural and individual differences of opinion.  And as our beloved Carl Sagan once wrote "Modern science has been a voyage into the unknown, with a lesson in humility at every stop.  Our common sense intuition can be mistaken, our preferences don’t count.  We do not live in a privileged reference frame.  If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal". Each of us must find our own goal. In another forum, I may have more to say. But I love GBT, and the people that make it great. This is not the place for intolerance. I would welcome a discussion off the public board.

DrMoraPhD
7 years ago

@iamore: There's a very fine line we have to walk when attempting to have an intelligent and civil discussion about religion. Of course, you're right that attacking people's faith alienates them and can be completely counterproductive, and its not my intention to degrade anyone. However, as you appear to be familiar with the arguments against religion put forth by the late Mr. Hitchens and others, you must realize that there are many aspects of religion that are illogical, unprovable, and tragically inhumane, which may be why you self-identify as "not religious." If religion was a privately held eccentricity that exclusively motivated its adherents to acts of charity and self-sacrifice, or to a greater recognition of our common humanity, or as a comfort for the difficulties of life, then I would have no problem with it, even though I think it delusional. Admittedly, there are many good people for whom religion functions in precisely this manner. But unfortunately, that's not the whole story. There are also qualities inherent in religious belief that are intolerant and ultimately self-degrading. As Hitchens pointed out, people are allowed to spout all sorts of nonsense, without refutation, if they happen to put the word "Reverend," or some other religious title, in front of their name. For the sake of courtesy, all argument is supposed to end when someone says "well, that's my religious belief." Should we allow them to get away with that, given the power that religious institutions have throughout the world, and the tremendous damage they have caused, both historically and today? As the comedian Bill Maher has said, "we shouldn't be so tolerant that we tolerate intolerance." I know that as long as human beings fear death, religion in some form will continue to exist, but isn't it about time that those of us who regard reason as mankind's highest attribute, and science as mankind's greatest achievement, resolutely challenge the Bronze Age superstitions that hold so much of humanity in thrall, even at the risk of offending billions?

iamore
7 years ago

@DrMora:  Although I agree, and the Ratzinger letters are a horrendous example, my intention is not to alienate or degrade any persons of any faith...  as I assume is not yours.  I leave that to the articulates such as the incredibly tenacious Hitchens you mentioned, who will be forever missed, RIP.  You do make an interesting point on the nature of institutionalization being the facilitating factor in these rationalizations, but I understand the place that religion holds in the hearts and minds of many people.


@youngagain:  Thank you for your honest reflections on the serious issues regarding faith and leadership.  I appreciate that these terrible offences can be difficult to acknowledge from with the faith and am glad that no justification or reconciliation can be found.  I agree that the solution must come from within the church... as the system is structured in such a way that it's near impervious to outside intervention.  And while I sympathize with the imperfect nature of humans leading to temptations, I must disagree such heinous matters can be approached from a position of love, dignity and respect.  The system must be corrected to afford an absolute ZERO tolerance for abuse, in order to maintain their mandate of love, dignity and respect.  I just want to say again, welcome to GBT, and I hope this community can lead you to some of the answers you seek that the church cannot / will not.

DrMoraPhD
7 years ago

Although I was raised in a strict Catholic environment, since arriving at "the age of reason," I am no longer a religious person. Every enduring organization will, over time, develop an institutional culture which seeks to protect the perceived needs of that entity. The people who tend to rise to leadership positions within these institutions are those who have inculcated the requisite values of placing obedience to a chain of command and adherence to institutional needs above all other concerns, even when those needs completely conflict with the originally stated purposes of the organization. Its an elaborate system of rationalizations, and in the case of the on-going scandal of child sexual abuse by clergy within the Catholic church, it has produced countless victims. While it is true that every organization will have its "bad apples," the moral test of any institution is revealed in how its hierarchy handles serious accusations of criminal behavior by its personnel. By this standard, it should be abundantly clear by now that for decades the highest levels of the Catholic church have been, and monstrously continue to be, engaged in a systematic cover-up of epic proportions. Indeed, they have been, in the unvarnished words of the late journalist Christopher Hitchens, "facilitators of child rape." As prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, described by subordinates as Pope John Paul II's "bulldog," authored a letter sent to all Catholic bishops, commanding them not to cooperate with secular criminal investigations of pedophile priests, and to warn any honest priest planning to give testimony against a clerical pedophile that the informer, not the pedophile, would suffer defrocking and excommunication. Upon the death of Pope John Paul II in 2005, Ratzinger was elevated to the papacy by the college of cardinals as Pope Benedict XVI. Even today, under the auspices of the seemingly benign Pope Francis I, this criminal conspiracy continues unabated, as the Pope refuses to permit the release of internal Vatican records which document the extent of these horrible acts of abuse, and the long-standing policy of the church hierarchy in covering up these terrible crimes. This Pope allows Bernard Cardinal Law, who for 20 years oversaw the shuffling of pedophile priests from church to church within the archdiocese of Boston, to enjoy a comfortable retirement in Rome, rather than ordering Law to return to the United States to face prosecution for his key role in the sexual abuse of many children. These bejeweled hypocrites had better hope that atheists are right and that there is no just God to judge them.

youngagain21
7 years ago

The church has a serious problem, as a whole, not just Catholic. People should be held accountable regardless of their position. By not taking action the church alienates the very people it is supposed to love, protect and serve.  The church should be setting a standard and leading the fight in this area, not just, reacting to it and in doing so would prove the tenants it preaches - else they are hypocrites. Personally, I cannot reconcile either the acts nor the church's lack of effective action.

Religious organizations are staffed by people, prone to temptations and errors just like anyone else. Not an excuse and that doesn't make any of it right. They are not all bad and should not be stereotyped as such. Doing so, in my opinion, is no better than the church stereotyping us. If we are to bring this to light and seek a resolution then I submit that we need to do so in the manner we ourselves would expect: dignity, respect and love.

For those who don't know me, which is most of you since I'm new to GBT and fairly private, I am a person of faith struggling to come to grips with who I am so I may bring a unique perspective. I am just a man in need of answers myself, but if I can help let me know. My heart also goes out to the victims and their families.

Davey1965
7 years ago

The Catholic Church has a long history of not investergating Complaints and just transferring Priests to another church to yet again reoffend. 

7 years ago

This is another reason why I hate religious organizations.