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The opening comment you based this discussion on is certainly true--for the lounge lizards and denizens of gay bars and similar hang outs. There is a sizable contingent of gays, who for whatever reason, would not be caught dead in a gay bar, don't know who Dorothy is and will never identify as gay. Gayness and 'gaydom' if you like, seems to be in the mind of a certain group of narcissists who define 'gay' as what they see in the mirror while they are young. The old, disabled, fat, ethnic and just plain ugly are not welcome in their world. And what a world it is! Complicated, bitchy, stratified by age, class and looks, rigid. But it is not the whole of gaydom! It's just the visible part; the part that sticks out and says look at ME!ME!ME! the narcissistic part. The reductionistic part the media reports on as if all gays were essentially the same. During the AIDS crisis, gay bars and the gay village were a refuge for many. Those days are long gone. Nowadays after a quick visit or two, many young people will likely clue in that gay bars, the gay village and the gay scene is for a very specific type of white, middle class, city dwelling person destined to become ketchy, bitchy old people, Yes, the very people who despise 'old' people. These days, kids come out on YouTube before their voices even break. For the most part it’s no longer a big deal to take their bf to the Prom; youth are growing up in a world that has always known the internet and legal SSM. Many will simply meet online, get married, move to the burbs with two kids and a Labrador. Moreover the self immolation of the gay rights movement, the takeovers by SJWs* with ever incomprehensible demands, the cancelling of major PRIDE parades and Pride events recently are very likely to turn off a lot of young people. It's certainly turning off a lot of the well-wishing public and drying up corporate sponsorship. Why is this relevant to your great vid on ageism in the gay community? Well, as you said, there really is not and never has been a gay community. It's more of a media short hand. You can see why. Once we get into the GLBT, which became LGBT, then LGBTQ and so on to the point where it takes a whole wiki article to try and clarify, we're so far out in la-la land that only the dedicated SWJs and the old hands know or care. It's a safe bet, everybody else is trying to get laid or find someone serious. But if you're a masochist (no judgment!) knock yourself out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT Speaking specifically and from experience, I know lots of guys who from first realizing they were gay, and this means from their earliest self-realization, discovered they preferred older guys. We all have very specific types we prefer, otherwise dating profiles would not see "no curry, no rice; no fats, no femmes" etc. So for those guys whose minimum age is say 60, or 70+ they aren't going to be on Tinder, they're going to be on Silverdaddies or DaddyHunt or other specific sites. If you happen to be 60+ or a chub, or in your teens or 20s like 60+, or chubs, you are unlikely to go to gay bars or other 'typical' venues because of the utter cruelty you'll be met with. If you like chubs, you go to a chub site. Are you a blue collar country boy who drives an F150, loves country music and your small town life? You aren't alone. Rural groups of like-minded gays exist for farmers and others, to name one specific example. (Google it) The internet makes it possible to meet exactly our type with maximum efficiency and no apologies, nothing underground anymore. The gay village and the gay bar? They will always appeal to a certain type, but they are just one type, albeit the loudest type. We can’t change being gay. No amount of electroshock or chemicals or threats or shaming or prison will change us. That’s true for type. We discover we’re gay. We discover our types. Somehow they’re hard-wired into us. The first time we see that twink or beefy truck driver with a beer gut and cowboy boots, or sailor or Asian body builder or whatever, our dicks go, oh yeah! that’s for me!
The heart of your appeal as I see it is fairness. Your argument boils down to treating people whose type is different from theirs is bad (true), appeal to the Golden Rule (do unto others) and one day you'll be old (Karma). As I've said at length above, we like who we like and it seems to be hard-wired. We can't change it. We most certainly can change how we treat others whose tastes don't match our own. We don't need to understand or approve, just not attack, mock and belittle is sufficient. You know, if you don't have anything nice to say, STFU!
Just for practice, some of our nastier critics could try to catch themselves when snidely commenting 'how much is he paying him?' of a young guy with an old guy. (The narcissistic part is that since they don't like old/fat/Asian/whatever money must be changing hands)
He can't get a white boy anymore, of an old guy with a much younger Asian. The implication is that the Asian is naive and being exploited. Or it could be the old guy is naive and being exploited by the cunning Asian.
And let's not just beat up on whites here. A lot of Asians have this interesting bit of double think going on: If a white guy they like is not interested in them, the white guy is a racist, the Asian an innocent victim. But if a white guy shows interest, and the Asian guy isn't interested, the white guy is guilty of 'fetishizing' their Asianess. Again, the Asian guy is a victim. Try reading some Asian SJW rants on how Asians should throw off their sense of victimization. Apparently this is done by victimizing others.
If the shoe fits...
Anyway, gaydom is evolving, the bars and villages are dying. Those that adapt by becoming kinder will perhaps survive. Being gay is normal. It's so normal we can just be our (old, fat, Asian, Black, ethnic, F150 loving) selves for the most part. Except around 'out loud and proud' official card-carrying SJW gay people in the village. Weird eh?
PS I put in Wiki references but if they don't appear then the site scrubbed them. * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior
PPS Personally I don’t get any form of sex that involves pain, tying people up, control, the BD, SM, D/s type of thing. But I don’t go posting on their sites telling them how awful they are. It’s bad enough we all have to deal one way or another with Evangelical Christians and their zeal to drive to suicide or at least back into the closet so they don’t have to acknowledge our existence. Fighting amongst ourselves, however loosely defined, only helps our common enemy.
What an absolutely sweet video - and very telling about some vacuous youth... Have to say he's one very attractive boy - and seemingly VERY pleasant too. Thanks for drawing attention to an unattractive aspect of our lives, Danny.
Ageism has been ignored for too long. But what is really unsettling is how fast we transend from being a hot young number, to a dirty old man! Currently I am nearing 65, and it seems like yesterday that I was partying my ass off on the dance floors of New England. As you age, the time passes like a jet plane through the sky, days, weeks and month turn into years before you know whats happening. And add rejection from the younger generation, you try to talk to them to clue them in on how quick their lives will go by, and they dont want to listen. Neither did I when I was 19. So ironic....
excellent video and also on youtube too, danny seems to have got a wiser head than some younger lads and even some older guys also... Damn good looking too !!
Excellent topic on this site. I always thought the same thing until I've gotten older. I've never been so popular among the type of guys I like. So, I do think a lot of "popularity" is self determined, due to how one acts, how responsible they are, how much respect they show toward others. Young people are not dumb and won't just go out with someone simply based on age. Sure, many identify as a "twink" and they seek "twinks" but, after the orgasm they want more. They want more than an face on grindr or a sexting on skype. They want real and they want to learn the good and the great from the possibilities. Same for older/mature/experienced men, who might identify as "mature" and they seek "mature" but, after the reminiscing about the "good ol' days" they want some spark, some passion, some energy, some "wow-I-never-even-knew-that-was-possible", some fresh outlook. It takes two to tango and it takes at least two in full physical presence with one another before it's real sex.
A good "older gay community" website is; SilverDaddies.com
10 years ago
Ours is a community that idealizes youth and beauty. When I was a young gay man, I remember friends talking about older gays in the most unpleasant and dismissive ways. Now that I am in my mid-40's, I am occasionally the target of such comments. Generally, however, there are many men of all ages who do not act this way. But, young or old, I've always followed a good rule of thumb: treat others the way you wish to be treated. Danny seems to get that. It's not about age or beauty; it's about respect.
I agree with everything that you have said in the video. Its about time that europeans should take a leaf from south east asia they see age only as a number that europeans use to reject someone before they know them. Yes asians do go with own ages range but just as many like to learn from older guys and many have a life long relationship with an older gay man.
11 years ago
For those interested, the video blogger has a YouTube channel :
http://www.youtube.com/user/PandaManDanny
I thank him profusely for posting his thoughtful commentary !!! Thanks Danny, you rock !!!
The opening comment you based this discussion on is certainly true--for the lounge lizards and denizens of gay bars and similar hang outs. There is a sizable contingent of gays, who for whatever reason, would not be caught dead in a gay bar, don't know who Dorothy is and will never identify as gay. Gayness and 'gaydom' if you like, seems to be in the mind of a certain group of narcissists who define 'gay' as what they see in the mirror while they are young. The old, disabled, fat, ethnic and just plain ugly are not welcome in their world.
And what a world it is! Complicated, bitchy, stratified by age, class and looks, rigid. But it is not the whole of gaydom! It's just the visible part; the part that sticks out and says look at ME!ME!ME! the narcissistic part. The reductionistic part the media reports on as if all gays were essentially the same.
During the AIDS crisis, gay bars and the gay village were a refuge for many. Those days are long gone. Nowadays after a quick visit or two, many young people will likely clue in that gay bars, the gay village and the gay scene is for a very specific type of white, middle class, city dwelling person destined to become ketchy, bitchy old people, Yes, the very people who despise 'old' people.
These days, kids come out on YouTube before their voices even break. For the most part it’s no longer a big deal to take their bf to the Prom; youth are growing up in a world that has always known the internet and legal SSM. Many will simply meet online, get married, move to the burbs with two kids and a Labrador.
Moreover the self immolation of the gay rights movement, the takeovers by SJWs* with ever incomprehensible demands, the cancelling of major PRIDE parades and Pride events recently are very likely to turn off a lot of young people. It's certainly turning off a lot of the well-wishing public and drying up corporate sponsorship. Why is this relevant to your great vid on ageism in the gay community? Well, as you said, there really is not and never has been a gay community. It's more of a media short hand. You can see why. Once we get into the GLBT, which became LGBT, then LGBTQ and so on to the point where it takes a whole wiki article to try and clarify, we're so far out in la-la land that only the dedicated SWJs and the old hands know or care. It's a safe bet, everybody else is trying to get laid or find someone serious. But if you're a masochist (no judgment!) knock yourself out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT
Speaking specifically and from experience, I know lots of guys who from first realizing they were gay, and this means from their earliest self-realization, discovered they preferred older guys. We all have very specific types we prefer, otherwise dating profiles would not see "no curry, no rice; no fats, no femmes" etc. So for those guys whose minimum age is say 60, or 70+ they aren't going to be on Tinder, they're going to be on Silverdaddies or DaddyHunt or other specific sites. If you happen to be 60+ or a chub, or in your teens or 20s like 60+, or chubs, you are unlikely to go to gay bars or other 'typical' venues because of the utter cruelty you'll be met with. If you like chubs, you go to a chub site. Are you a blue collar country boy who drives an F150, loves country music and your small town life? You aren't alone. Rural groups of like-minded gays exist for farmers and others, to name one specific example. (Google it) The internet makes it possible to meet exactly our type with maximum efficiency and no apologies, nothing underground anymore. The gay village and the gay bar? They will always appeal to a certain type, but they are just one type, albeit the loudest type.
We can’t change being gay. No amount of electroshock or chemicals or threats or shaming or prison will change us. That’s true for type. We discover we’re gay. We discover our types. Somehow they’re hard-wired into us. The first time we see that twink or beefy truck driver with a beer gut and cowboy boots, or sailor or Asian body builder or whatever, our dicks go, oh yeah! that’s for me!
The heart of your appeal as I see it is fairness. Your argument boils down to treating people whose type is different from theirs is bad (true), appeal to the Golden Rule (do unto others) and one day you'll be old (Karma). As I've said at length above, we like who we like and it seems to be hard-wired. We can't change it. We most certainly can change how we treat others whose tastes don't match our own. We don't need to understand or approve, just not attack, mock and belittle is sufficient. You know, if you don't have anything nice to say, STFU!
Just for practice, some of our nastier critics could try to catch themselves when snidely commenting 'how much is he paying him?' of a young guy with an old guy. (The narcissistic part is that since they don't like old/fat/Asian/whatever money must be changing hands)
He can't get a white boy anymore, of an old guy with a much younger Asian. The implication is that the Asian is naive and being exploited. Or it could be the old guy is naive and being exploited by the cunning Asian.
And let's not just beat up on whites here. A lot of Asians have this interesting bit of double think going on: If a white guy they like is not interested in them, the white guy is a racist, the Asian an innocent victim. But if a white guy shows interest, and the Asian guy isn't interested, the white guy is guilty of 'fetishizing' their Asianess. Again, the Asian guy is a victim. Try reading some Asian SJW rants on how Asians should throw off their sense of victimization. Apparently this is done by victimizing others.
If the shoe fits...
Anyway, gaydom is evolving, the bars and villages are dying. Those that adapt by becoming kinder will perhaps survive. Being gay is normal. It's so normal we can just be our (old, fat, Asian, Black, ethnic, F150 loving) selves for the most part. Except around 'out loud and proud' official card-carrying SJW gay people in the village. Weird eh?
PS I put in Wiki references but if they don't appear then the site scrubbed them.
* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior
PPS Personally I don’t get any form of sex that involves pain, tying people up, control, the BD, SM, D/s type of thing. But I don’t go posting on their sites telling them how awful they are. It’s bad enough we all have to deal one way or another with Evangelical Christians and their zeal to drive to suicide or at least back into the closet so they don’t have to acknowledge our existence. Fighting amongst ourselves, however loosely defined, only helps our common enemy.
Have to say he's one very attractive boy - and seemingly VERY pleasant too. Thanks for drawing attention to an unattractive aspect of our lives, Danny.
Yes asians do go with own ages range but just as many like to learn from older guys and many have a life long relationship with an older gay man.
http://www.youtube.com/user/PandaManDanny
I thank him profusely for posting his thoughtful commentary !!! Thanks Danny, you rock !!!